History: You are Mike McDermott, a talented semi professional poker player: law student by day, grinder by night. However, life has become a grind, and so you’ve decided to take a stab at the ‘big game’ – an underground cash game run by Russian mafia boss Teddy KGB. The game is six-handed No Limit Hold’em (“the Cadillac of poker”). You have increased your stack of $30,000 (three stacks of high society/your whole ‘roll) to $50,500, whilst Teddy has $54,000.
The game is currently four-handed and you are on the button; Teddy is in the big blind.
UTG folds
You look down at Ac-9c
Assuming the blinds are $100/200, what’s your move?
Eoin Kennedy says:
“I raise for sure, standard raise 2.5 big blinds to $500 is fine assuming that has been your standard raise.”
Gareth Cash says:
“Raise. Something like 600 to 700 usually, but more is fine. This deep stacked we want to start building a pot. Limping would be fine if the stacks were short (15 to 25 big blinds) and our opponents were reraising late position opens often, since we have a playable hand that we don’t want to get forced off, but raising is still much better in that case too.”
Adam Latimer says:
“A-9 of clubs is probably the best hand in a four-handed game. I’d open to my usual size of three times the big blind, so $600. I really don’t like limping in on the button as raising builds up the pot for you in position with a nice hand, so that if you flop big you have inflated the pot size to enable you to get your stack in.
If the blinds are super aggressive pre and post-flop and they will bluff multiple streets regularly, limping would be more profitable. Then you could play a very passive line and just call down bluffs when you hit a hand with good showdown value, or just fold cheaply when you miss.”
Richie Allen says:
“I open fold here as I don’t want to steal Teddy’s blind and get my legs broke but if I did I would make it about $550. Limping is pointless as you’re raising any two on the button the majority of the time anyway so you may as well build a pot.”
Joe Whittaker says:
“This is a really clear raise to 600 or 700 depending on the flow of the game, possibly even 800 if the game is very loose-passive and soft. Limping the button can never really be good this deep as we have a premium hand and want to start piling money into the pot (or at the very least win the blinds).”
James Keys says:
“There’s $300 in the middle from the blind hands, you’ll want to be raising a lot of the time to take this. If you start limping with good hands your raises will get played back at. Also, it’ll be pretty obvious your hand is pretty good unless you balance your limping range with bad hands, and why would you want to limp with bad hands? $600 is a good raise size, small enough to induce action, but large enough that it can thin out the big blind’s range a bit.”
James Atkin says:
“I’d go with a standard raise to $550. I don’t really see much point in limping, that only really works when you flop a monster and you’ve let a junk hand come into the pot that would have folded otherwise. But most of the time no one hits anything, so just raise.”
Mark McCluskey says:
“Not sure what limping is, but if I was gonna do it the button seems as good a spot as any.”
You raise to $500
The small blind folds
Teddy says, “It’s a position raise, I call it” and throws in the additional chips.
Flop: As-9s-8c
Teddy checks.
Pot = $1,300, You = $50,000, Teddy = $53,500
What’s your move? Should we slow-play this short-handed or do we need to bet because of the draws?
Eoin Kennedy says:
“I think we certainly need to bet, a check if anything will look suspicious and may cause us to lose action on later streets. Also another spade appearing may also cause us to lose action on later streets.”
Gareth Cash says:
“We should bet for several reasons:
• To get value from worse hands, i.e. any ace, any other pair, A-8, 9-8.
• To protect our hand from draws.
• To keep our opponent guessing, since we’d also continuation bet here if we missed.”
Adam Latimer says:
“I would bet this flop for hand protection because of the draws that are out, but more so because we want value from our hand. After Teddy’s obvious moody, it indicates to me that he has a good starting hand. He can very easily continue with a hand like a good ace, or a suited connector like J-T or 7-6.”
Richie Allen says:
“Well, every player continuation bets here when checked to on an ace high flop so checking will not only look suspicious, but you may lose a customer.”
Joe Whittaker says:
“While obviously cautious of Teddy’s speech play, betting is vital here. Slow-playing is horrible because it accomplishes nothing and, like preflop we have a premium holding and want to put money into the pot. I’d be continuation betting 700/800 into this pot and therefore should obviously be doing it with my pat hands too. Protecting against draws isn’t as vital in a heads-up, button raised pot as both our and our opponent’s range is so wide, but I guess we should also be mindful of flush and straight draws in our opponent’s range.”
James Keys says:
“Yeah, a bet is essential. You will try and take the pot with a bet if you didn’t have an ace, so it’s important to bet when you do have one as well. I would bet quite big here also, to protect against the many draws, although I rarely bet more than the pot. I think I’d bet $1,100.”
James Atkin says:
“I definitely lead out here, not continuation betting will look suspicious, and we really want to be getting money in this pot now anyway. Lots of cards could fall that either harm our hand or kill our action. I’d go with a $1,000 bet or so.”
Mark McCluskey says:
“Flashback to the last time me and the lawyer student bird screwed back at the apartment. Again knowing grin but this time I scratch my forehead as a double false tell.
Draws? I have the nuts – I’m all in!”
You bet $2,000
Teddy calls
Turn: 9h
Teddy checks
Pot = $5,300, You = $48,000, Teddy = $51,500
What’s your move? Was it correct for us to overbet the flop?
Eoin Kennedy says:
“Overbetting the pot against the given opponent is fine, he may well see it as weakness and believe he can take the pot away from us on a later street. On the turn I would check to try and feign weakness hoping he will fire at us on the river and also to give him chance to catch a flush if he was on a flush draw.”
Gareth Cash says:
“Checking and betting are both fine, I’d usually bet though. Something like 2,800 to 3,600 seems good. We’d usually bet this card with air or if we had A-K or A-Q so we need to bet when we have a full house too, especially after showing such strength on the flop by overbetting. We’d never overbet if we missed, so I don’t like that move. Overbetting the flop and now checking the turn should make our opponent very suspicious.”
Adam Latimer says:
“Because we are deep with a very good hand, overbetting the flop isn’t terrible because it more effectively manipulates the pot size in order to get your entire stack in. The issue is whether Mikey McD has also been betting his bluffs and his draws like this in previous hands? Otherwise, this would be an obvious betting size tell and might give away the strength of his hand. You can’t just assume that Teddy ‘will think I’m trying to buy the pot’.”
Richie Allen says:
"After we bet $2,000 on the flop I think we have to stick with that line so I make it roughly $5,000. No, I think the bet on the flop was too large but slightly overbetting sometimes can camouflage the strength of your hand."
Joe Whittaker says:
“This is obviously a gin card for us, as middle pair hits a lot of our opponent’s range (now giving him bare trips). It also means that all draws are drawing dead to us. However, just because a flush is drawing dead to our actual hand does not mean that it’s drawing dead to our range in this spot and we should certainly bet to protect our range (specifically when we want to get our second street of value from A-K/A-Q). Betting somewhere in the region of 3,800 definitely seems the best plan. Remember that we have the second nuts (and pretty much the effective nuts) and we’re still desperate to shovel money into the pot.”
James Keys says:
“I don’t like overbetting the pot before the river because it would be expensive to bluff for that amount when you could be getting called by draws, so you can’t bluff much of the time. By betting less than the pot you can bluff a lot of the time and really disguise your range. Now, having made the full house, I would probably bet again, but quite small, to extract a bit more from flush draws that are drawing dead now but don’t know it, but who will know it if they wind up with eight high on the river. I also think you should be able to get three streets of value from a lot of hands like A-Q and above and any nine.”
James Atkin says:
“I’d say it’s only correct to overbet the flop here if we think our opponent is a calling station. We don’t want to bet weak aces out of the pot and such. On the turn, if he does have a straight or flush draw, a check behind gives him an opportunity to hit on the river. However, I’m all for betting this turn; he’s unlikely to put us on a nine, and could raise us to try and represent this card following his flat call of our flop bet.”
Mark McCluskey says:
“Shallow gulping and look of anticipation as the lawyer bird is definitely going to be up for it when I show her this score. Was it correct for us to overbet the flop? Who cares, only A-A beats me and... hang on, these are Teddy’s chips, Teddy’s cards, Teddy’s dealing and the bloke with one eye is grinning like he’s just been f***ed by Natalie Portman.”
You check behind
River: 3s
Teddy bets 15,000
Pot = $20,300, You = $48,000, Teddy = $46,500
What’s your move? What do you make of his huge overbet?
Eoin Kennedy says:
“Aggressive overbet but not ususual for this opponent. I would read it as complete air or an absolute monster.”
Gareth Cash says:
“He has to have a flush beat here, since he’s obviously not scared of us having one, and it’s a bad spot to be bluffing given the previous action (we could have been on the flush draw or slow playing a monster). So he either has the nut flush, or a full house. The only possible full houses are A-9, 9-8, 9-3, 8-8, 3-3 and A-A. If we shove all in, there’s a small possibility he’ll call if he has the nut flush, and he’ll almost definitely call with any full house. So we win when he has a flush, 9-8, 8-8 or the unlikely 3-3 or 9-3, chop when he has A-9, and lose when he has an extremely unlikely A-A. Easy shove.”
Adam Latimer says:
“When somebody overbets the river, it’s very rare that they are bluffing. At this point I would put Teddy on the nut flush, or the case nine that are hoping to be called by a strong ace. I would happily go all in here with our full house.”
Richie Allen says:
“I got a good read on teddy and put him on aces full and pass. Well the way the betting has gone it does look like he’s rivered the flush.”
Joe Whittaker says:
“The huge overbet is obviously something that’s very confusing - the only hand we’re losing to is A-A and if our villain has got that hand in this spot then he has practically been burning money on the three previous betting rounds in the hand. Aside from the poker decision, if losing this pot would bust your ‘roll then I’d advise just calling, but if not, dwell for five to ten seconds then in-she-goes.”
James Keys says:
“It is quite a ridiculous bet. I would be suspicious seeing as this is an unlicensed game and in reality there is a good chance he’s being cheated a la ‘Lock Stock’, but with the second nuts against someone as clearly fishy as this guy I think you have to shove because you’ll get looked up by any full house.”
James Atkin says:
“We can be pretty much sure that this overbet isn’t a bluff, as it would seem unnecessary to risk so much to win a fairly small pot. There is a possibility he’s trying to fold out A-K type hands, but I think we have to put him on a strong hand. Therefore it’s likely he’s either got the King high flush, or perhaps he had pocket eights the whole time. There’s no way around shipping in all our chips on the river.”
Mark McCluskey says:
“Run. Run fast. Run as fast as your limited editions will let you. I feel sick about the overbet and I’m not sure I’m getting any tonight after all.”
“Time,” you say before pausing. “Yeah, I’m gonna go all in because I don’t think you’ve got the spades.”
Does this kind of table talk ever work? Assuming Teddy had a inferior hand, how would you get him to call?
What do you think of the way Teddy played the hand?
Eoin Kennedy says:
“I really dislike the table talk, I think you are effectively telling Teddy that you can beat a flush. To try and get him to call with an inferior hand I think a long pause followed by an all-in while keeping your mouth shut is your best shot.
I do like how Teddy played the hand assuming he has read Mike well. The one thing I dislike is his speech play before the flop: ‘It’s a position raise, I call it.’ Whenever someone says this or something like, ‘I think you are stealing, I call’ they will have a monster a large percentage of the time.”
Gareth Cash says:
“Table talk like that very rarely works, but it depends on how experienced (or inexperienced) the opponent is. You’re probably better off trying to look weak and maybe giving out some false tells. The best way to get action in these situations is to play in such a way that your opponents know you’re capable of making big bluffs and therefore call you more often when you do have hands.
Teddy played the hand very strangely. He should obviously reraise preflop with A-A pretty much every time, and he should also have been trying to get as much money as possible into the pot on the flop and turn. He got very lucky that the board developed the way it did and he managed to win the maximum, it could have worked out very differently.”
Adam Latimer says:
“‘Want a cookie?’ ‘Remember I’m up from the last time I stuck it in you?’ ‘If you call, it’s gonna all be over baby.’
Table talk tends to give a lot away unless you are a master of deception. If a fish says something like, ‘I don’t think you have the flush,’ they probably think you actually do have the flush but they can beat it anyway. You’d never say that if a flush could actually beat your hand right? I think the best way to get called by a lesser hand is just to keep still and quiet. Don’t give anything away.”
Richie Allen says:
“Table talk does work in some situations but what Mike says here and then shoves is usually a massive sign of strength. I think trying to look weak is probably your only chance as Teddy is an experienced player and won’t buy any trash talk.”
Joe Whittaker says:
“Our speechplay at the end is horrific, I can only ever see it being spades and it really eliminates any chance that we’re bluffing. In this spot he’ll show up with eights/nines full a bunch of the time and call you regardless of your speech, but you probably just made a flush fold.
Teddy played the hand horribly; his call preflop was really bad as he should have a balanced three-betting range against a button raiser and as such should obviously not be smoothing your best hands. His flop check/call was similarly bad, as his hand is already totally disguised and can never be given credit for top set - check-raising is certainly much better as that’s what most decent draws would be doing in that spot. Checking the turn at least continues with the story he was trying to tell, that he had a weak ace that was trying to get to showdown. Teddy’s river bet was not horrible, but since he’s played the hand exactly like he thinks we have nothing (if he thought we had a good hand, he’d have tried to get his money in earlier), a small bet trying to get paid off from two pair/trips hand would probably be much better.”
James Keys says:
“This kind of table talk should never work in reality, it’s too face up and transparent. If Teddy started dwelling up I might show some signs of relief that I haven’t been snapped off, maybe say something like, 'Now I know I’m ahead,' as suggesting you know something more than the other guy might make him angry enough to call.
Teddy played the hand pretty well to be honest, although it’s easy to play well when the turn gives you pretty much the absolute stonecold nuts. His flop call might have looked a bit silly if the turn rolled off a seven of spades though. His river overbet is pretty clever if his opponent has the impression he will be dumb enough to do it with a flush, provided that he doesn’t actually.”
James Atkin says:
“I don’t like the table talk, I think it sounds too strong. On the logic that we don’t think he’s got spades, we would just flat call his bet unless we had a monster as we do. Consequently we’re advertising the strength of our hand. I think we should just move all in fairly quickly and strongly, and hope he reads us as strong means weak, and I’d do my best to act as if I didn’t want a call if he started probing us.
Teddy’s line in this hand is certainly unusual. His overbet looks like a big hand, but we have shown weakness on the turn, therefore with a big hand I would expect a smaller bet to try and get paid off by A-Q type hands if that is the case. However, perhaps he realises if we have slow-played something quite big or hit the flush ourselves, we are likely to pay off with these hands. If he is bluffing to try and fold out strong ace type hands, I don’t like the play. Our strong bet on the flop suggests we have hit the flop, and although sometimes that might be a strong ace, it’s also sometimes a flush draw.”
Mark McCluskey says:
"This kind of table talk always works in my opinion, but for the other guy. I’d fake muck then ask him to fill in the missing word from the song 'You can **** me Al' by Paul Simon (in a lighthearted way obviously so he didn’t suspect anything)
Teddy played the hand top class, especially the 'it’s a position raise' bit. Fooled everyone. Id say to him, 'Well Teddy, I guess if I’m going to have any chance of getting my end away tonight I’m going to have to let you go. Nh, sir, gg, wp, gnite.'"
The Reveal: Teddy makes the call and shows Ad-Ah, “Aces full.” You vomit over the table.