Continued from Part One...
Interview - Toby Lewis
When I started off in the business, I never thought I’d be writing about players who were almost a decade younger than me, but the latest generation of up-and-coming poker stars are exactly that: fresh-faced, 20-year old prodigies taking the game by storm and earning millions in the process.
With the likes of James Mitchell, Matt Perrins, John Eames and Jake Cody running amok through the tournament circuit, there is a plethora of young blood pumping through the veins of the industry and unlike our beloved International football team, the future for UK poker is looking brighter than the Vegas Strip.
Toby Lewis is the latest phenomenon to emerge from this generation, lining his pockets with a €467,836 payday at the EPT’s latest stop in Vilamoura. But for those ‘in the know’, it was simply a matter of time before Toby won a major event, the Southampton pro having already impressed across numerous festivals with his ahead-of-his-years maturity and composure and his uncanny ability to collate chips.
Like most, Toby picked up the game with friends, playing with coins at school and college. At 18, he hit the casino, starting off with £5 rebuys before quickly moving up the ranks to £100 freezeouts. The natural progression was to online, and although he dipped his toe into grinding cash for a living, it was MTTs where he ultimately found his home.
Just two and a half years on, and Toby is preparing for the final of the World Poker Open in Mayfair, touted as the in-form player in the field and one of the favourties to win the event. As I approached him, Dictaphone in hand, Toby had just survived the turbo heat, overcoming a tough line-up that included Brandon Cantu and Marty Smyth to book his place in the upcoming final. It was possible that Toby would be leaving that day with $200,000 in his back pocket and another title under his arm, yet talking to him, you would have had no idea.
Snoopy: Well done for getting this far. You started off quite tight in your heat and then began free-betting light. Was that part of the plan?
Toby Lewis: Yeah, I think, the structure's quite deep to start with so you don't need to play too many hands, especially with it being eight-handed rather than six-handed. I didn't really have a strategy heading in, but I knew that I didn't want to be too aggressive so that I could get some credit when I needed to.
When the blinds kick up, even though there aren't any antes, there's a lot in the pot worth taking. I knew Phil Laak was going to raise and fold quite a lot, and Jason Gray wouldn't get out of line with me too, so I thought there were a couple of good spots where I could play a bit looser and reraise preflop.
Snoopy: Were you surprised with how well any of your opponents played?
TL: I've played with John [Tabatabai] before and I know he's very strong, and good at putting pressure on people. I was quite wary of him because he's never going to give his chips away; you're going to have to cold deck him or win a race. Other than that, I didn't really know many people. I knew Phil Laak would raise a lot but never put his tournament life on the line.
I knew Dale [Hoy] wouldn't be too far off with some things, but I thought he'd play a little tighter than John would. I know he folded a few A-x hands when I was shoving on him that he probably should be calling with, but what do I know, he won the heat.
Snoopy: Speaking of Dale Hoy, what were your thoughts going into heads-up?
TL: I just wanted to get a feel for him heads-up so I played a few hands where I limped or min-raised the button. I knew he'd peel a bit, but then I saw him call with T-3, I began to think, 'Well, if he's peeling that hand, he's peeling a load of hands, and maybe I should raise even lighter.' He played good heads-up, though; he didn't make any mistakes. I did, unfortunately. I didn't feel he was big on that last hand, and it kind of turned out that he wasn't, but he owned me, basically, calling with K-J.
Snoopy: You had a tricky decision in the turbo heat with the Q-9 of hearts. Why did you decide to call in the end?
[Toby called all-in with a queen high flush draw after MB Mahmood had led into an 8-8-3 two heart flop and Brandon Cantu come over the top all-in.]
TL: Well, [MB] Mahmoud was playing a lot of pots, so he could have anything, and I thought Brandon Cantu had a really wide range and was looking for spots to get it in. He’d played a lot of pots and seemed willing to gamble. It was possible he just had a couple of overcards. I think my decision was a close one, but considering you have to win the heat outright, it’s worth the call. If I had the ace high flush draw, then I call instantly, but the lower my flush draw gets, the more difficult I think it is to get my chips in.
Snoopy: Why did you play the World Poker Open?
TL: It gives me a little bit of exposure. These things are obviously good for people who aren’t signed up yet, and that’s quite a big reason in my opinion. I do think there’s value too, as was evident from what we saw today.
Snoopy: Digressing to your EPT win, I heard you had a lot of support over there [in Vilamoura]…
TL: When I made the final, I rang up all my friends at home and got them all on flights to come over. It might have made a difference, I don't know, but it was fun, and they all enjoyed it.
Snoopy: Is the raucous support not off-putting at all?
TL: Nah. It's much better to have more banter, and them being more cheery, than just silence. It's much more enjoyable. They did try to push me in a fountain outside the casino afterwards, but I ran away and wasn't having any of it.
Snoopy: What were your thoughts on Teddy Sheringham?
TL: Teddy's a cool guy. He's the ultimate sportsman really and you can tell how much he wants to win everything. We played golf the next day, and he was ultra competitive. He's a really solid poker player. I think he found it hard to make moves though in the EPT and I never felt he was going to go out with a stupid hand, or by making a play.
Snoopy: How does this win change things for you?
TL: It's obviously a big win. I was pretty fortunate that I had 88 percent of myself. It definitely makes a difference, but I don't think it's changing my schedule that much. I was going to sell some more pieces for other things, and now I don't need to sell as much, but I was planning to play a lot of poker this month anyway. It just helps that I can't go bust, pretty much. I was playing EPTs before, and was going to play the WSOPE and EPT London, so I don't think that's changed my mindset at all.
Snoopy: You were too young for Vegas this year. Have you thought about next year at all?
TL: I'm going to go there for quite a long time I imagine because it'll be the first time I've been. I'm just going to try and keep the balance right between poker and socialising, because everyone I've spoke to who goes over there says that it's really hard to find the medium between playing and going out.
Snoopy: What strides have you made to improve your game over the last couple of years?
TL: Basically, I just tried to talk to everyone who I thought was really good. The group of guys who we all hang around with at the moment are so talented, and so clever with the way they play, that I think they help a lot. We always talk about hands.
I've watched a few videos in my time but they can get a little bit boring after a while. Just talking through hands with friends when you're in a cab or something is really worthwhile, and it’s great to be able to discuss things with other good players whose opinions I respect.
Snoopy: The likes of Jake Cody and James Mitchell had already picked up titles. Was it frustrating in a way to watch your friends win major events?
TL: I was pretty fortunate because I had 10 percent of James, so that helped in that respect. But no, I'm a little bit envious of them to start with, and then I'm really pleased.
I think if you just play enough, your time will come. If you're playing the right amount of tournaments, the variance will be on your side eventually and you'll bag a win under your belt.
Snoopy: You seemed to accrue huge stacks in a lot tournaments I saw you play, but then fall short with a few tables left. Is that an accurate observation?
TL: Yeah, pretty much. I always find in these live tournaments that people start a lot looser, and then tighten up gradually, which doesn't make much sense. I try to play the other way around. I play quite tight until the antes come in, and then start splashing it around to get some chips, but obviously it can sometimes go wrong. Once you've got a big stack, not everyone, but a lot of people, are less willing to play with you, which gives you a big edge.
Snoopy: Do you think people should take shots in poker, or just continue to grind it out?
TL: Shots are really, really important. Even if you think it's a step too far, you should still put yourself into that situation so you're prepared for it in the future. If you're playing a £1/2 cash game at the Vic, go play the £5/10 cash game somewhere else, just because it'll give you such a buzz and you'll be prepared for it. Just take a shot. The worst thing that can happen is that you lose that money and go back to the stakes you were grinding before, and win it back again.
Snoopy: What was your overall plan with your own bankroll?
TL: Playing tournaments, it's quite hard to say, 'This is my 'roll now, and this is what I want it to be,' so I didn't set myself any specific targets. When I first started playing, I was hoping to be able to buy a house. I think that's a really big thing to do if you can set enough money aside, you'll always have something to fall back on that way. That was my overall plan at the start.
Snoopy: What do your parents think about it all?
TL: My dad was really supportive all the way through, even when I had no money at the start and was borrowing off him. My mum was pretty much against it, but she didn't really understand it. She just knew that I went down the casino every week. She saw blackjack and poker and didn't know, or even want to know, what the difference was. She's a lot more supportive now that I've done well. She's also taken some time to see that you can make a living from playing poker.
Snoopy: What were your experiences of the Grading?
TL: Just to talk to Neil, Nik and any of those people was a good learning experience. I didn't know anybody really in the live scene until then. Now I know a lot more people, and that helps to have friends, even if you're playing against them sometimes.
Snoopy: Did you ever send Neil a screen print from PokerTracker or Sharkscope?
TL: No, I haven't, unfortunately. He probably wouldn't stake me if he looked at my Sharkscope if I'm honest. I met Neil when we were doing the Grading, when Black Belt first started. I appreciate everything Neil's done for me; he always helped me out when I asked him.
Snoopy: What are your goals for the next 12 months?
TL: I haven't really thought about it. I just think one month ahead. I really want to win another tournament, basically, really quickly, and just keep building my 'roll. I'm going to get a place, something like that, eventually, and keep playing games that are profitable to play in, and keep playing tournaments where you can win lots of money.
Read Part Three...
Previous World Poker Open articles:
World Poker Open VI - Part One: A Hard Day's Night